Tribulation - Interviews

Deutsche Version lesen With “Sub Rosa in Æternum”, TRIBULATION have made an unexpected, but very successful change of style. We spoke to guitarist Adam Zaars about the surprising vocal skills of frontman Johannes Andersson, tours in the USA and to Corona, and the return of gothic metal.

You are right back from your U.S. tour – your first since the pandemic – how was it in comparison to your last run there, did anything change?
Thank you for having me, first of all. It was great getting back and it was very nice. It felt wonderful, to be honest. We enjoy going to North America to play. It’s always a good time. We’ve had many good tours in the U.S. in the past. We’ve been lucky enough to be a support act on great tours before in the U.S. and this was the case this time around as well. We didn’t know what the Opeth audience would be like. We’ve never played with them before. I imagined it would go down fairly well, but we didn’t really know. But it turned out it works really well playing with Opeth for us. And even the new songs, or especially I guess, the new songs worked super well. Spontaneous applause in the middle of the songs every night and so on. It was great. And Opeth, they don’t seem to have any problems with selling tickets, so that was a good thing for us as well. (laughs) So we only had great shows every night. And the pleasure of touring with Opeth and their entire crew as well. That was just great. So overall it was fantastic to be back – to be back in the U.S. and to be back just touring in general. It’s been too long.

An U.S. tour is big effort, you have to pay a lot for the visa and everything. I think it’s a higher risk to go on tour there in comparison to a European tour? So would you do that as a headliner as well or do you think that’s too much of a risk at the moment? You said that for Opeth it worked well, but do you think it would work for TRIBULATION as a headliner as well?
Yeah, I mean, it worked before and we’re going there next year. So I guess we’re going to find out if it works now as well. (laughs) I think North America is a good market for us. I don’t know why, but it really is. And the new album seems to be going well over there as well. We had a lot of enthusiastic people, a lot of old fans coming to the shows, but a lot of people who’ve never heard about us before as well, who were really happy to have stumbled across our music. So I imagine it will work pretty well when we go there as a headliner.

Do you think it works better with the new songs, because your music is now maybe something that Americans like better than the black-death metal you played in the early days?
I don’t know. I mean, death metal has been a big thing in the U.S. for the past five years or so. I was rather thinking the opposite, actually: I wasn’t quite sure how they would take this new album because it’s not as extreme as it’s been in the past. And I guess we don’t really know so far, but it seems to be pointing towards that it’s going to work out at least fairly well. We’re going to have to wait and see. But I’m not too worried about it.

I saw that you didn’t play any songs from your last EP and the last album on that run, so only new and very old stuff, so to say. Was there a reason for that?
It was mostly because we only had 45 minutes, and we wanted to play new songs. We could have played four new songs, we had four songs out. But you can’t just play new stuff. People don’t really like that. But we played three new songs. And then we really wanted to play “Suspiria De Profundis” from our second album. And that takes a big chunk out of those 45 minutes, because it is 11 minutes or something like that. And we also wanted to play the “classic songs” that people expect. “Melancholia”, “Strange Gateways Beckon” and so on. So it was more that we just couldn’t play more. We could have played “Hamartia”, we could have played “In Remembrance” or something like that from the EP and the last album. We just didn’t have time to do more.

We already talked about the different style of the new album from your earlier works. How does it work to combine the new songs with older material live, when it comes to the atmosphere or dynamics of the set?
So far so good, I’d say. I mean, we played “Suspiria De Profundis” and then directly after that we played “Hungry Waters” from the new one. And I mean, “Suspiria De Profundis” it’s got some mellow, more like experimental parts … it’s a long epic song. But it’s also got like Morbid-Angel-Riffs going on. And we played that next to “Hungry Waters”, which is one of the mellower songs from the new one. And that worked great. The audience loved both of them. And it didn’t seem to matter that they’re so different. Let’s see how that works out in Germany, and in Europe in general. I don’t know. We’re going to have to find out on the tour coming up now. But hopefully it’s going to work out well. I mean, we’ve had this problem for a while, I guess. More or less, at least. Playing a song from the first album and then playing some newer stuff doesn’t always work super well, I guess. But it depends on who’s listening. If people know the band, if people know the songs, then it’s a different thing than if someone just stumbles in, and then we play for three minutes a death metal song and then all of a sudden it’s like electro pop or whatever. (laughs) That’s got to be a bit weird, I guess. So it depends, I guess, on who’s in the audience.

What was the initial inspiration to change the style of TRIBULATION that much? Was there a moment when you were writing the songs for this album or maybe already when you did that EP, that you said, OK, we have to change our style now? Or was it by accident? Especially when it comes to the vocals – using more or less only clean vocals on the album is a huge step. What drove you there?
When we did the EP, we didn’t think like that. But looking back at it, it definitely seems now that it was a final offering to the extreme metal gods, so to say. A song like “Hemoclysm” from that EP is not completely, but more or less, a black metal song to some extent. When we did it, we didn’t think about that. But we did know that we had to do something just for ourselves, to keep ourselves interested and to really enjoy doing this, I guess. What that new thing was, we didn’t know at all, really. And we didn’t plan the clean vocals … it happened because Johannes, the singer, he wrote the last song on the album, „Poison Pages“. And he made a very first demo, the first version of that song, and sent it to us. And when we got it, he was singing on it. Which was a surprise, of course. We didn’t talk about it. And I remember just thinking … ok, are you serious? (laughs) Is this what we’re doing? How are we going to incorporate this into whatever else we’ve been doing for the album? We didn’t have a lot of songs at that point, but we had the kernels, almost all of them. But after a while, two weeks, a month or so of listening to it and really liking it and really hearing the potential in his voice and then going back to the songs we had, trying some clean vocals on those … and it didn’t work at every part. „Saturn Coming Down“ is one of those: We tried to have clean vocals in the verses there, but it didn’t seem right. It didn’t fit. So it was a gradual thing after he made that demo. But a few months after that, it just felt very natural for us to do that. And in the studio, it was even more like that. It felt like we could have done all of it with just clean vocals. I’m glad we didn’t, because I like the songs with the growling vocals as well. And I think it’s a good bridge, I guess. But that became the necessary change, I guess. Because again, we knew we really wanted to do something different. And it’s super difficult to figure out what. And it’s always a gradual thing with us. It’s always a process. And there’s never a complete vision from the start. We just let things happen and see where it takes us, really.

Was it maybe also the idea of ending the era with Jonathan Hultén, who left TRIBULATION after the recordings for the last album, to have a cut and do something completely new now, without him?
Yeah, maybe a little bit. I mean, it was an opportunity that presented itself to us. Absolutely. But that is not to say that we wouldn’t have done it if he was still in the band. I don’t know, but it probably could have happened with him in the band as well. I don’t think he would be opposed to it.

Did you know that Johannes Andersson can sing like that? Or did he do that in the rehearsal room or whatever already before? Or were you really surprised by that first demo of those first songs?
I’ve heard him sing on soundchecks and so on, but it’s always goofing around, you know. So no, I didn’t really know. I didn’t know. And we worked a lot on it. I mean, he’s not a singer. He hasn’t been a singer. He’s been screaming. He’s got the biggest lungs in the world. Standing next to him when he’s doing it, is an experience. (laughs) That’s what he’s always been doing. So no, I didn’t know. It was a surprise. And I’m very glad it worked. It might as well… When we’ve been doing it for a while, and trying things out, and you have to think about keys and things now in the song, to fit his voice and stuff. So we didn’t know if it was going to work. I’m super happy it did. And I’m quite amazed that he pulled it off, really.

Talking about the songwriting: When you don’t have growls, there’s a lot more space for the instruments, because the entire arrangement is more transparent, so to say. Did that have an influence on how you wrote or arranged the songs?
Yeah, absolutely. A few of the songs wouldn’t have worked if we hadn’t taken that decision of having the clean vocals. We wouldn’t have been able to do “Hungry Waters”. We wouldn’t have been able to do “Murder In Red” or “Reaping Song”. So, yeah, it did change. And that’s the new element that we are going to have to think about from now on. I mean, the album was just released, but obviously we’re going to do another album at some point. And that’s the new element in the songwriting, to think about. And it does change it, because you need something else underneath the vocals, if you’re having clean vocals, rather than if you didn’t. So it’s both… it’s difficult, of course, but it’s also liberating in a way, to see where we can take it. And it did absolutely change the songwriting for this album.

Did you try to learn from other bands in this regard, or also to get inspiration from bands that work with clean vocals? Because to me, the album sounds really influenced by 1990s gothic metal. So are there the bands you had in your mind when writing those songs or when you got into the spirit for this album?
Not really. I have never listened to any of the gothic metal bands of the 1990s, except for Tiamat. I listened to Tiamat. But no, we didn’t think about Tiamat, either. It was other things. Of course, there’s Fields Of The Nephilim, but we’ve been inspired by them for 15 years. So it’s not a new thing, really. But we didn’t really go and looked at anything in particular. It mostly came from other sources, I’d say. Like Chris Isaak, maybe. I know Joseph and Johannes were talking about Billy Idol a lot. (laughs) So it’s more from adjacent music, but we didn’t go, let’s see how does Sisters of Mercy do it? How does Paradise Lost do it? We didn’t do that. It’s more that this is his voice. And it just fits the music. And since we already have that dark sound, it kind of naturally becomes kind of „gothy“ in a way. But no, we didn’t really look at anything. We’ve been writing music for a long time in many different styles. So I guess it’s not really necessary to have a blueprint for it?

No, definitely not like a blueprint. But yeah, if you do something very different, maybe you need to look at how other people do it or how to do it, because you never did it before …
Yeah, that’s true. But we’ve been writing rock and pop songs before. Joseph has been doing it since forever, I guess.

But it’s interesting that you’re not that much into gothic, because TRIBULATION has ever had that kind of gothic vibe, in the music and the appearance on stage, and this time even more. I would have expected that this is a huge influence on you as a band.
Yeah, it is. I mean, Siouxsie And The Banshees and, you know, I don’t know, Cocteau Twins, and Sisters Of Mercy as well … Fields Of The Nephilim. There are a lot of gothic bands that we all listen to. But I never got into the metal side of it. I guess that’s what I’m saying.

I don’t know if you heared it, but Cemetery Skyline, this Swedish all-star project with Mikael Stanne, released their debut album one week before yours or so … and I think it’s quite similar in this goth rock approach. Is that just a coincidence, or is there some kind of retro gothic wave going on in Scandinavia at the moment?
I haven’t heard them, but I know about them. I just saw it on YouTube, I think, when they released the video. But I have no idea. I don’t keep up with what’s going on, to be honest. But, I mean, even when we did “The Children Of The Night” and we were touring a lot in the US … even back then, something gothic was starting to happen. There was always, after the show, there was always a goth club somewhere that people wanted to go to. And I think that thing already started back then. And then there’s been this nostalgia and retro kind of thing going on with, I guess, the Internet culture, the online culture with all these Wave and whatever they’re called, all of these liminal spaces and whatever. And it’s all very nostalgic. You have Carpenter Brut and Perturbator and all of those bands. I’m just riffing here …but it seems to be a thing that’s been going on for a while. And if I’m tensing it correctly, I think it’s going to continue. I’m not sure, but that’s my general feeling at least. Based on not a lot of substance. (laughs)

Do you think you have to look in a different direction when it comes to bands you’re going on tour with now as well? Because maybe with the clean vocals, you don’t fit in every black metal, death metal tour billing anymore?
That’s true. We’ve always been kind of chameleon, I guess. We’ve been touring with bands like Ghost. We’ve been touring with Death Heaven and Watain and Abbath. And even like Cannibal Corpse and bands like that. So we’ve always managed to swim in between everything. And we’ve always managed to fit in to different things. But that might be a bit more difficult now. I guess. I mean, we’re still going to play old songs, of course. I think we’re still going to be able to play like a more extreme kind of festivals. But it opens up for other bands to tour with that we maybe haven’t been able to in the past. I don’t know exactly what, off the top of my head, but absolutely it opens new doors. That’s for sure.

Yeah, also to new people who attend your shows, buy your merch and so on. Which leads to the next topic: How important is it today for a band like TRIBULATION to be on tour and to sell merchandise to keep this whole thing going?
For a band like us, it’s very important. The other side to that is social media, really. Doing really well on social media and maybe even does videos or whatever for YouTube and so on is a great asset for a band that can do that. We are old farts nowadays, and we’ve always been like that. So we’re just trying to keep up with that part of the business. (laughs) So for a band like us, it’s very important, to be out, to be seen even because people seem to forget about you. I don’t know, I never understood it, really. But if you’re not around, people forget about you. They do. Which is, I don’t know … I always listen to the same bands, over and over. So it’s a weird thing for me, but I guess people who are hungry for new music and things like that, tend to forget. So it’s very important for us to be playing live

Especially in the US, but also in Germany or Europe, concert tickets, merch and so on costs so much money nowadays. Which is a logical consequence of the rising production costs. But at some point, people will no longer be able or willing to pay these prices … So what is your forecast, where will this lead us?
Well, that depends on the economy, I guess. It’s very difficult. I mean, when we did the tour with Watain a few years ago, the price for the tour bus doubled in an instant, and we couldn’t do anything about it, we just had to pay for it. So things like that happen. It’s incredibly expensive to go on a tour. And it’s very difficult to break even. So it’s bleak. I don’t know. We just have to hope for a better economy in the entire EU, I think, and in the US. Sometimes … I think it was in Canada or something now, where we had to price-match as well with Opeth, the T-shirts were ridiculously expensive. We were ashamed to even sell it, but you can’t do anything about it. But we sold well anyway, so that was great. I was really surprised by that. So I don’t know. It’s difficult, but I think it depends on the economy, on combating inflation and getting out of COVID thoroughly. I think we’re still struggling with that, so hopefully things will get better. In the US, they managed to fight inflation in a better way than we’ve done in the EU, so I think we have to step up.

What would be your personal limit for buying a t-shirt as a fan at a concert?
Oh, I don’t know. I never do that. (laughs)

You don’t do?
I never go to concerts.

Really?
I mean, I’m also in many concerts anyway, but I rarely do. Of course, I sometimes do, but I’m not living in Stockholm anymore. I’m living far from Stockholm, there are no concerts where I’m living. But what would be my limit … I don’t know. I mean, I think €20 is a lot, and I think that’s probably nothing for most bands nowadays. I’m still stuck in €20.

Yeah, that’s the price stuck in my head as well, and then it’s €40 at a show today.
Yeah, so no, I’m the wrong person to ask that. (laughs)

OK, we’re more or less done anyhow, I have only a short brainstorming left – what comes to your mind first when you hear the following terms:
Donald Trump: It happened. It was expected. I hope he will be as sane as possible, and I’m just keeping my fingers crossed that this is a good thing rather than a disaster, and I guess we are going to find out in the coming four years.
Vinyl: Still the number one choice for me to get a record. I don’t think I’ve ever bought a digital release, and I can buy CDs if I find something cool, I guess, some old CDs, but if I’m buying a record, I’m buying an LP, absolutely.
Christmas? Christmas is great!
Germany: I have a complex relationship to Germany. I’ve worked with Germans for so long, and I love Germany and I hate Germany. (laughs) But I’m looking forward to going back to Germany now to play. It’s always good playing in Germany. Especially if you have been … I’m not going to name countries, but it’s always nice to get back to Germany whenever you’re on tour. So, thumbs up for Germany. I hope you’re doing well with all the government chaos that’s happening now. (laughs)
TRIBULATION in 10 years: I hope we’re still around, I hope we will still have a hunger to create music, I imagine that we will. Right now, it feels like we have a lot of music in us, especially now that we’ve opened up this new space with the clean vocals and everything. Looking forward to seeing where that’s going myself, I have no idea. Hopefully, we’ll still be going strong, and hopefully we will have become a bigger band. That’s all I’m hoping.

All the best for that! Thanks a lot for taking time for this interview!
Thank you! Goodbye!