Interview mit Jonas Åkerlund von Lords Of Chaos

The film wasn’t shot in Norway, but in Budapest – why did you decide to shoot it there?
Because it’s cheaper than in Oslo, Norway. I wanted to shoot it in Norway, but it’s very expensive to shoot there – so we ended up shooting in Budapest.

Were you satisfied with the set nevertheless?
Well, there were quite a few things we had to change for it to look like Norway, but it’s also a period piece because it’s set in the late 80’s, early 90s. So there were a lot of things we had to change anyways, like cars, street names, and a lot of other things. But there were scenes built – we built it to look like Norway as much as we could.

How many stave churches did you have to build only to burn them down?
Technically we burnt two churches in the film. One of them was a church we bought from another film. It was in storage, and we repainted it and made it look different, but it’s a fake church, a movie-church. The second one we burnt is just a façade, just the front. The interior we actually shot in norway. We had two shoot-days in Norway as well, we shot a few things there as well.

You’ve mostly made music videos lately – has this influenced your approach to the film?
Not really. But I guess a little bit because I have a way of telling my stories which actually doesn’t come from music videos – it comes more from commercials. When you do commercials, you have a very short time to make an impression – you have 30 seconds to tell a big story. I learned early on to be very graphic and in your face with the way I tell my stories. You know, I do a lot of macro close-ups, wide shots, a lot of sound effects and all that. I think, I do that with my movies as well and also I kind of bring this mentality with me when I do my movie. So, a little bit, yeah.

Did also your Black Metal roots help you with „Lords Of Chaos“?
Well, I mean, both – yes and no. The truth is, to me, this movie is not really about black metal, it is not really about mayhem. It’s not a music film. It’s actually way more about the relationship between those young boys. But of course there are elements in there, when they play their instruments, when they do their concert and all that where I basically pulled from music videos tricks to make it look good. And also of course it’s stuff in there that is a little bit like that. And also the first part of the film, which is them forming the band, colouring their hair, trying to figure out their sound, being awkward with girls, the party they have … all that stuff in the beginning of the film is very much like my background was, when we started my band, tried to figure shit out. Beyond that, I never burnt churches and never did all the other stuff they did, so …

Have you been still a part of the scene when all this happened in the early 90s? How much did you hear and know about it back then?
I was part of the black-metal-scene a little earlier, but I always followed the stories, I always listened to the music, I was always listening to this kind of extreme metal. So I followed it as much as everybody else: we saw it on the news, we heard all these rumours … when Pelle [Per Yngve Ohlin aka. Dead, A.d.Red.] committed suicide, it was something we all knew about it though he is Swedish, he was a friend, We knew him and everything – so, obviously I was around, I heard about it and I knew about it as it was happening, yeah.

Did these happenings influence you back then in some way?
I think so. I think, it influenced a lot of us. I think, the story was special for a lot of people. I think, I was a little bit like that in the beginning. I thought that this story is very unique, I felt like I was close to the story, I felt like it’s almost my story. If anybody else talked about it, I was a little offended, because I thought it was my story, you know, and I can tell that a lot of people are like that – even people who were not even there think it’s such an important story to them and you know they feel very connected and have opinions about it. But then, later, I realized that it is a very sad story, but also a story that we’ve all heard and seen many times before. This happens all the time, this happens daily! Every day, somewhere around the world, some young kids are doing stupid things. It’s not really a unique story in this way. But in a weird way, there are a lot of people connected to the story and affected by the story.

The book „Lords Of Chaos“ was released in 1998. When did you read it for the first time – and how and when did the film idea come about?
I actually had the idea of making a film out of this, before the book came out. I was in Los Angeles working on something and I saw about these church burnings on CNN, on the news in America. And I thought: This is interesting. There is something special about this. I mean, it took me years before I decided to make a movie, but it was kind of in the back of my head for a very long time. The book … my brother gave it to me as a Christmas gift when it came out. I read it back then, in 1998, and I never read it again.

Not even now, in preparation of doing the movie?
No. I didn’t feel like I have to, you know? I know the story very well. My research for the movie is well beyond the book. Me and Dennis [Magnusson], who I wrote the script with, we did a lot of research with seeing all the documentaries, reading all the books – there is many books out there -, reading the police reports, meeting people. There were so many outlets for inspiration when we wrote the script – the book was just a piece of it.

Then isn’t it misleading to call the film like the book if it isn’t explicitly based on the book?
I didn’t say it was not based on the book! It says in the movie that it’s inspired by the book “Lords Of Chaos”. The reason, why we bought the rights to “Lords Of Chaos” was to clear all the names – it’s more a technical thing. And then we called the project “Lords Of Chaos”. I always thought that we would change the title to anything else, but we kind of fell in love with the title, and I made this logo that I really liked, and before we knew it, it was just the title we wanted. We talked about changing the name several times, but the title stayed.

How did you approach the project – did you want to make a movie that would show black metal fans the history of their genre, or one that would introduce the world of black metal to people unfamiliar with the genre?
I think both actually. I did not make the movie to please the black metal community. But I know that there are a lot of people that are interested in the story so I wanted to have the approval of the metal scene but I also made this movie for a lot of people that don’t know this story – maybe young people who were not there when it happened. I wanted to make it a little different: We’ve seen the documentaries, we’ve read all the books, we’ve heard all the stories – and they are all kind of like the same. They are portraying the darkness of it, the evilness of it. The characters are almost portrayed like deamons, like evil people. My take on this is that these were very, very young boys, they came from good families and I always thought: There must be a human behind this corpse makeup, there must be a human behind all this which we haven’t seen. So my perspective was to humanize the story, humanize these kids and try to tell it from a little bit a different perspective.

Did it put you under pressure to know that the die hart black metal fans already know all the details of „your“ story so well, and that every scene will be searched for mistakes with eagle eyes?
Eh, no. No pressure. By the way: There is a lot of “black metal professors” out there, but most of them do not really know what the hell they are talking about. And I guess I’m one of them. I also consider myself knowing and knowing better than everybody else. And there are so many people who think they know better than everybody else. But the truth is: I don’t think anybody knows. I don’t even think the people that were there know … it’s a long time ago, and it’s all based on rumours. We’ve heard stories told by Varg [Vikernes] so many times, but they are different every time he tells it. The story has changed over the years. But at the same time I really wanted to make an authentic movie. So everything with the instruments, and the t-shirts, and posters, and sneakers, and jeans, and hairdos and all that I wanted to be correct. So, luckily for me these kids were very good at taking pictures – this is before internet and mobile phones obviously. But they were really good at taking pictures, so I had a lot of research-material so I could easily get it right.

Did you have contact with the persons depicted in the film during the pre-production, and did they support you?
Yes, most of them. The important ones were always there, starting Euronymous’ parents, who I was very keen on having them involved and making sure that they knew what I was doing. They read the script very early. And then I was early in contact with Necrobutcher and Hellhammer. I had to, because I needed the rights to the music, so I had to be in contact with them. And I also was trying to treat them with respect – we were basically making their story! – but at the same time it was important to me that it wasn’t their movie – it was my movie. That it was a balance with being in contact with them and how much input I was willing to give them. But we’re all friends and it’s all good. There have been a lot of rumours about it, but as far as I am concerned the ones that are important to me I’ve been in contact with. Pelles brother has been very supportive, Attila has been very supportive, Necrobutcher is a friend, and the most important thing is Euronymous parents.

Varg is definitely not a supporter. Let’s have a thought game: Would you have worked with him if he had agreed and risked indoctrination of this project through this person?
No.

So you never considered asking him?
No. The thing with Varg is that he has told this story more often than anybody else. I didn’t feel like I needed to hear him say it again. I had enough material to make the movie because he told the story so many times.

I really like the differentiated representation of all characters: somehow they all don’t come off well, but you can understand them somehow or in some way – how did you develop these characters for yourself, what helped you to get a picture of what they could have been like?
I start the movie by saying “It’s based on truth and lies”, and obviously the characters are real, we know them, but we don’t really know them. We were not there, we don’t know, what was going through their heads, and the “lie”-part of the “truth and lies” is basically me making a movie. So as much as I wanted to do proper character development based on the real persons in real life, I also had to make them into movie characters. I had to figure them out for the movie. It’s kind of little bit of a mix. But over all I feel like I’m pretty damned close in the characters.

Varg in particular is a very contentious person. How hard was it to create a Varg for your film that would meet your needs for the story?
Because he has been so accessable for everybody – he is very proud on what he did and he is telling the story over and over again – it wasn’t that hard to figure out his motivation and what he was going through. He was probably to me easier than Euronymous. Because Euronymous is a little bit more secretive and the thing with Euronymous is that the few things and stuff he did it felt like he was always playing a role, it felt like he was never himself. So it was a little harder to figure him out.

In the movie, Euronymous girlfriend Ann-Marit has similarities some with Dead, I think. Was that intentional in the way that Euronymous loves a girl looking like the late but never forgotten friend?
Oh. (laughs) This is a new one. I did not think about that, that’s interesting. But no, that was never the intention. But it’s an interesting idea. Maybe, if you want to analyze it, Dead showed up in Euronymous life and he changed his life: He made him do stuff and go to places that he never would have gone before. To me, the trigger to Euronymous, at the end, to start a new life and move on – the girl is one of these reasons. He showed up and changed his life – she shows up and she changes his life. In a way, there is a parallel story there. Well done of that, I liked to analyze that!

Many of the actors really look very similar to their role models – others less so. How important was it to you to what extent the actors looked like real people?
When you make a movie for a big audience it’s not that important. The general public doesn’t know how these kids looked like back then. But of course we wanted to use the real characters looks, since it’s a big part of what they did – the hairs, the leather-jackets, the instruments, the boots, the corpse makeup … all that is such a big part of the visual language and also of the creativity. These kids were so creative! What they created, and the fact that we are still talking about it now. It’s not that many bands, 30 years ago, of that size, that we’re still talk about. And the world still knows about. And it’s not that many bands that get a movie made out of them. So, of course, all of that was very important to me as well.

Snorre is not even mentioned by name as far as I noticed that correctly, he is only called „Driver“ in the credits. Why?
I always tried to be sure about stuff, but with him and his journey, I wasn’t sure. I wasn’t sure, how involved he was or not. He has never really talked about it, so it was a last minute decision from my hand to not name him by his real name, because I’m not a 100 percent sure that’s that what he was through. That’s why I changed it.

Presenting suicides is controversial because of the risk of copycat suicides. Dead’s suicide could not be presented more explicitly – why was that important to you?
Well … Well. I told you, I wanted everything in this movie be as real and close to the reality as it could be and I wanted the three murder scenes in the movie as close to the reality as well. I didn’t really see a reason why I wouldn’t. To me it’s also … It’s such a horrible event. And the movie is about these horrible events – I don’t think this story would have existed if this suicide wouldn’t have happen. And I felt like it was important to show that. I felt like in order to feel for those characters at the end of the movie we needed to see the beautiful parts, the funny parts and also the dark parts. I couldn’t see how I could possibly compromise in any of these parts. And that’s my answer. I know, this question always comes up, and I understand why. But to me the reason why the movie affects you when you see it, it’s all these things. It’s not just the violence, and it’s not just the music, it’s not just the emotional part or whatever. It’s all together.

But from the commercial point of view this scene could be a problem. Will it be re-directed before it comes to the cinema and would that be OK for you?
I hope not. I really don’t want that. I want this to be the movie that people see. I don’t care if less people see it because of this. But I think it’s the opposite effect: I think people are gonna wanna to see it because it is real and it does touch you. The second, we go “vanilla”, the second, we even it out emotionally, the movie is not gonna work. I don’t think that it’s necessarily like that with all the stories, but this specific story has to feel real and it has to have these elements. I really think it needs this – otherwise it’s no point of doing it.

The story of your film is nothing less than the founding myth of Black Metal. Did working on that movie bring you closer to this founding myth or did it „de-glorify“ it?
Absolutely closer! I actually didn’t think there was more to learn, more to understand, when I started this project. I thought I knew it all. But now I realize that it’s way more to learn. And it’s way more to tell. I actually wish that this was a TV series, so I could have more time to tell more stories. You know, I could tell a full story about Blackthron, I could tell a full story about the parents, or the police investigation or the music and the court hearing. The rivalry between Sweden and Norway … there are so many side stories. I mean, Fenriz could be a full episode, and Vargs mother could be full episode. There are so many side stories that I could not fit into the movie.

Yeah, when I was watching the movie, I was wandering that it’s “only” the Mayhem-story. At which point did you realize that you had to focus on this particular part of the story, and not to talk about Emperor or Darkthrone or all those bands? I mean, Faust is in the movie, but it’s not even mentioned that he’s also playing in a band …
When I did my research when I wrote the script, all characters were given a background. There was way more time spent on every character. But then I slowly started to realize that the main core of the story is the relationship between first Euronymous and Dead and then Euronymous and Varg. Somebody else could tell a different story, we could probably make a movie about Necrobutcher as well, or make a movie about someone else. But this is what became my main focus: How could it happen that people stop thinking as individuals and start to think like a group and start to impress each other and everything just goes to shit. What is the core of this, why did that happen. And that leads me to the suicide. I don’t think playing around with dark symbols and writing dark music and pretending that you’re worshipping Satan has anything to do with it. But the fact that this suicide happened, the fact that Euronymous decided to take those pictures instead of calling the police changed everything. And before you know it, you are totally immune and killing a man is not that big of a deal. And before you know it, you kill your best friend, and then you’re fucked for life. It’s just incredible how that happens. And the main core of that story wasn’t Darkthrone or wasn’t Fenriz or wasn’t anything else. It was these three characters.

Wilson Gonzalez told at the „Question & Answer“ that the whole film crew was at a Mayhem concert after the shooting. Did you like it?
I’ve seen Mayhem every year – I see them always. But the timing was incredible, because we worked on this movie for quite a long time. And as you know, we started in Budapest, and then we had two shoot days in Norway, and on the same day we finished, they played actually in Oslo. The timing was just incredible. The fact that we were all there was incredible. I’m very good friends with Attila and we ended up having some after party in a hotel room. Actually I think it was Wilsons hotel room, but I’m not sure. But everybody was there, all the actors. It was really funny to see the actors next to the band. I’ve got a great picture of Anthony [De La Torre] who played Hellhammer when he stands next to Hellhammer. It was really fun to see them together.

OK, this was my last question – thank you very much for your time and answers! This was really interesting.
Great! And thanks for watching the movie and writing about it! Have a good evening!

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Publiziert am 21. Januar 2019 von Moritz Grütz