„The Sachem’s Tales“, the second full-length by DZÖ-NGA is, in many ways, an outstanding album: Supported by the new singer Grushenka, former solo musician Cryvas mixed black metal with folk and classical music and lyrically deals with the myths of North America. In the following detailed interview, you can read more about things like the unusual band name, which stories are told throughout the album and why most of the music was recorded with a keyboard.
Greetings and thank you for answering our questions. How are you?
Cheers, and thank you for having me. Things are going great at the moment. Our CDs are starting to arrive at their new homes and it’s very exciting to see fans enjoying them. There’s nothing better than waking up to pictures in our Facebook inbox. Also, the LP edition of „The Sachem’s Tales“ just went up for pre-order, so that’s exciting.
DZÖ-NGA was a solo project at first, right? What was your initial intention behind the project?
Yes, actually my idea at first was to create a single album. It began with the concept – I have a fondness for mountains and mythology and stumbled across the legend of DZÖ-NGA while reading about Kangchenjunga, a Himalayan mountain said to be the home of a powerful demon. My music studio was just taking shape then and did not yet have proper heating in it, so I’d spent the winter of 2015-2016 listening to appropriately cold music such as Paysage D’hiver and Ethereal Shroud. I have a Tibetan singing bowl that I sometimes use for meditation, so these converging events led to the idea of creating an album that would incorporate the mythology, ethnic music, meditation, and devastatingly cold atmosphere in a project with little precedent. So I recorded „Five Treasures Of Snow“ in about four months (much of it actually in temperatures below freezing) and self-released it in May. I really wasn’t expecting much of an audience, since the album was experimental even for an already-niche genre – instead of drums there are bells, thrumming bass, and the singing bowl. The jury’s still out on that one.
At first you played black metal, but now there are also elements of ambient and folk. How did it come to this change?
The stylistic progression was, again, slave to the concept. I was fortunate to have Black Noise Records, who specialize in exotic black metal, take a flyer on the album and issue a run of 50 CDs. One of those ended up in the hands of Avantgarde Music, who expressed interest in either reissuing „Five Treasures“ or an entirely new album. I studied ethnic musicology in university, and some of the cultures that I felt were underexplored were those of North America. I suppose the one entity that most inspired „The Sachem’s Tales“ was Henry Wadsworth Longfellow’s epic poem, “The Song Of Hiawatha”. My resulting goal was to move away from desolate wintry landscapes and into verdant forests, and so I introduced the folk elements. There are several opposing forces at work in this new album which I tried to bring into equilibrium: the black metal versus classical/folk is the most obvious, but those arise from more subtle dichotomies. A balance of male versus female is important both in music and story, and may be familiar to fans of the post-metal band Isis. Sorrow and hope are present in every song, be it the dual narration of “To The Great Salt Water” or Lilith’s angelic turn on “Halle Ravine”. There’s a lot of tension throughout the album thanks to the new elements, and I’m very pleased that a number of reviews have recognized how I tried to create this world for the listener.
Did you already have experiences as a musician before DZÖ-NGA?
I have created music for as long as I can remember, but the actual number of years might be a little misleading. I started with classical piano at age three, which expanded to drums and organ in high school, and then later to guitar. Unfortunately, the majority of my recorded output has been solo projects, since I grew up far from anywhere that had a real music scene. In the last four years I have written and recorded six albums under various names, including these two under DZÖ-NGA. One of them I entirely re-recorded with Aaron Maloney (who contributed guest drums on „The Sachem’s Tales“) and a terrific guitarist, which turned out very well. I didn’t put nearly enough effort into promoting that album thanks to personal issues, but I expect to pick that project up again stoon. Hopefully my body of work will help me to connect with more musicians. For instance, I was recently invited to play a show with Sorrowseed (whom Lilith fronts as her main gig) to open their North American tour this summer, and that turned out to be a great experience.
What’s the most important thing for you when you write a song?
I treat every song as a journey. Each one has a starting point and an ending point, and there are infinite ways to get from one to the other. In an album like „The Sachem’s Tales“, where there’s an overarching concept, the songcraft is a little more delicate. Things have to be tempered and stoked in the right places so as not to feel unbalanced. A climax that’s too big in one song can create a vacuum to begin the next, while having too much saccharine folky dithering can drown a song’s momentum. I try to create songs that are distinct, and have some sort of memorable aspect to them so when they’re over you can say, “I liked the song that had x”. I find it disappointing when I listen to an album that I remember liking, but can’t recall any particular moments or how many songs there were. In the end, it’s about the balance between a song’s individual identity and its greater contribution to the album.
Which bands and musicians have influenced you as an artist?
When it comes to influences, DZÖ-NGA often wears its heart on its sleeve. „Five Treasures“ took cues from Paysage, Weakling, and some newer bands like The Great Old Ones and Rorcal. The latest album pays homage to Wolves In the Throne Room, Windir, Agalloch, Emperor, Ulver, and Opeth, among others. I remember thinking to myself once that I wanted DZÖ-NGA to be North America’s answer to Saor. There are some less obvious ones though. San Francisco’s art-sludge act Giant Squid comes to mind, whose eclectic approach to songwriting has fascinated me for a decade. Check out „The Ichthyologist“ if you want to hear an album that has some superb imagery. Cellist Raphael Weinroth-Browne’s compositions for Musk Ox and The Visit are beautiful examples of harmony and expression. Obviously there’s influence from classical music too, where Hector Berlioz and Gustav Mahler probably top my “most-played” list. I fell in love with concept albums thanks to Mastodon’s „Leviathan“ and „Blood Mountain“ and Isis’ „Oceanic“ and „Panopticon“. The laments of Ahab and My Dying Bride, the soaring keys and vocal interplay of Nightwish… there are bits and pieces from all over the musical and geographical world.
Meanwhile, Grushenka is a permanent band member, she does the female vocals. How and why did it come to this?
Grushenka is awesome. She’s this rare mix of being down-to-earth but with total conviction for the things she’s into. We met at a Wolves In the Throne Room concert when I had just moved to Massachusetts. Her doing vocals in DZÖ-NGA was a matter of happenstance, really. I had talked to Lilith over the winter about doing the album’s female vocals, but she has many projects and travels a lot so she’s sometimes hard to pin down. Around February, Avantgarde called about the album since they wanted to release it by the spring, and I hadn’t heard back from Lilith in a while so I kind of panicked. Grushenka had mentioned being interested in singing when we met again at a Mayhem show, so I gave her a call and we scheduled a recording session to see how it would go. She (somewhat surprisingly, I admit) nailed it, and we agreed that she gave the album a great new dimension. We did a photoshoot and I invited her to be a permanent member – it gives me peace of mind, since I can write her parts with confidence as to what they will sound like. Anyway, I had the album ready to go when Lilith emailed to ask when I wanted to record. The answer was “immediately” and she managed to make it happen. I still had “Halle Ravine” kind of set aside, where it could have been an instrumental or vocal song, but I think Lilith turned it from a pleasant instrumental into something really, really memorable. So that all fell into place miraculously, and I think both relationships will lead to good things moving forward.
Your bandname DZÖ-NGA derives from a demon in Native American mythology, doesn’t it? What is there to know about that and why did you choose this name?
DZÖ-NGA actually comes from the previous album, which was based on local legends surrounding Kangchenjunga. The story is recounted in a number of texts and scholarly papers: according to Sikkim tradition, a demon (sometimes described as a physical creature, like the Yeti) resides at the mountain’s highest peak and takes one human life from each expedition as recompense for allowing the others to reach the summit safely. This helps explain why Kangchenjunga has historically been the deadliest mountain in the world. Since „Five Treasures“ was originally meant to be a one-off, I simply named the project after the titualar entity without much of a mind for marketing. I think eight or nine people bought it on Bandcamp at first. One comment observed that it “sounds like a Big Bang Theory-tier way of referring to tits.” I’m not sure if that’s better or worse than when someone said our band photo reminded them of an erectile dysfunction ad.
Even though DZÖ-NGA was founded just in 2016, „The Sachem’s Tales“ is already your second album and there was also an EP. How do you manage to creat that much music in so little time?
I spend a disproportionate amount of my time writing music. It’s been that way since I was a kid. I actually recorded an orchestral concept album concurrently with Five Treasures Of Snow, switching between the two projects when I needed a break from one or the other. Having my own studio certainly expedites things – I can record ideas and come back to them later, fine-tune things constantly, and generally be a recluse for weeks at a time if I’m onto something. Some days I’d go out to the studio at 9 a.m. and it would be dark by the time I next checked the time. „Upon the Shimmered Bough“ was written and recorded in about four days, between sessions for a film scoring program, and admittedly ended up a little half-baked. That one has been reworked and will appear in a compilation album this coming winter. Still, I don’t create a lot of music compared to some other bands in the atmospheric black metal genre – look at Kalmankantaja or Hermodr, who release new albums four or five times a year. I’m not sure those guys even eat or sleep.
Where do you you see the biggest differences between the debut and your latest album?
The emotional setting of each album is quite different. „Five Treasures Of Snow“ is a very lonely album; one review called it “unforgivingly exposing” which I agree with. The singing bowl is an instrument of heightened awareness, and the album is meant to isolate the listener and provide a sonic backdrop for an inward journey. „Five Treasures“, from a story perspective, is about climbing the mountain to face DZÖ-NGA himself and reach the Immortal Valley beyond its summit. „The Sachem’s Tales“, on the other hand, is an album that conveys a shared experience. The title of the opening track “Midewiwin Lodge” refers to the ceremonial dwelling where stories are shared between generations. “To The Great Salt Water” and “A Seventh Age of Fire” feature a variety of vocal styles representing various narrators, and “The Witching Meadow” is styled so that each instrument takes turns soloing as if there are many musicians interacting.
Is there a song on your new record that you find especially like? If so, which one and why?
I find myself turning to “Against the Northern Wind” more than any other track on the album. It’s based on a great story, and I think the music delivers that well. The ominous opening, blizzard-like verses featuring Grushenka’s distant, mournful vocals, and thunderous denoument all fell into place beautifully. Aaron’s drumming is also some of the most interesting on the album, like when he uses a two-on-three pattern with the china cymbal to create uneasy tension that releases in the song’s climax. It’s a song that incorporates all the elements of DZÖ-NGA’s sound, but is still the shortest of the four main tracks. Also, the organ outro feels majestic to play.
On „The Sachem’s Tales“ you deal with the mythology of the Native Americans. What exactly do you sing about?
In „The Sachem’s Tales“, each song is an Anishinaabe traditional story – hence the title of the album. “To The Great Salt Water” tells of two lovers separated in the great westward migration, with the lyrics alternating between their points of view (“What shall I tell our children?” Grushenka asks, to which I reply, “Tell them our story; tell them who they are.”). “The Wolves Fell Quiet” is the darkest song on the album, set “beyond the taiga in frozen hemlock groves,” and is about the creation of a Wendigo, a malevolent cannibalistic spirit. The end of the song references Wallace Stevens’ “Domination Of Black,” a surrealistic poem whose atmosphere I sought to emulate musically. “Halle Ravine” continues the story of the female protagonist from “Salt Water” and is named for a nature preserve near where I grew up. “Against the Northern Wind” is based on the tale of Shingebiss (voiced by Grushenka), a young woman who refuses to abandon her home in the face of the Winter Bringer’s most devastating storm, and so earns his eternal respect. “A Seventh Age Of Fire” invokes the Seven Fires Prophecy, which foretold the arrival of a dangerous new race and a chosen boy who would either lead his people into prosperity or famine. Finally, things return to the tribal elder’s fire with “The Witching Meadow,” ending the album in a celebratory manner.
In which way is the artwork, which bears the title „The Wendigo“, connected to the lyrics?
The artwork doesn’t reference a specific event in the album, but it connects to many aspects of it. Some reviews have pointed out the correlation between the two vocalists and the battle between maiden and monster, as well as the competing musical styles. The Wendigo does show up in “The Wolves Fell Quiet,” though in a different context. Overall, the art style has a dream-like indistinctness to it, which seems appropriate since the album is about tales created in the mind’s eye. The overall color palette is warm and inviting despite the subject matter, so it again fits the theme of a storytelling session. Avantgarde actually preferred a forest landscape at first, but agreed that this one would be more iconic. The response to the art has been very enthusiastic, and it seems to be a reason many people click this album rather than others around it.
The drums were contributed by a guest musician. However, they sound somehow artificial, especially in the more intense sections. Did he really play all the parts by himself?
This is a question I get a lot, and not without good reason. The drums have a very processed sound to them, and some parts are difficult to picture being played live. With the possible exception of “blending kick and snare samples” which you can hear in the blast beat that opens “Wolves” and a similar one on “Seventh Age,” they are all authentic to my knowledge. I’ve worked with Aaron in person before, and he can play some incredibly fleet and complex parts (he still described the kick run at the end of “Wolves” as the fastest double-bass he’s ever played). However, he’s typically not a black metal drummer, and the effects he put on the set make it sound oddly tinny and unnatural. I probably would have recorded them differently and with a more natural sound, but I’m happy with the overall result.
Why did you go with a guest-drummer, instead of getting a permanent band member?
Last year, I honestly didn’t know if there would be enough interest in the project to warrant further material. So I asked Aaron to lay down percussion for the album because I’ve seen what he’s capable of and we have a good rapport. I think the album’s managed to garner enough support that it would be worthwhile though, and I would certainly consider adding a full-time drummer more versed in the style. So if anyone’s interested and in the area, feel free to drop us a line.
The acoustic guitars also sound unusual, they’re almost as gentle as a harp. What’s the reason for that?
The acoustic guitars are actually done on a keyboard. I’m far better at keys than I am at guitar (see related, “tremolo power chords”) so I used that for the harmonized lead sections. It does lend a uniquely bright and lush sound to the album, so hopefully no one is particularly bothered by it.
The production in general seems to be a bit lacking. Is this due to limited possibilities or are you satisfied with the sound of the album as it is and therefore see no need for changes?
The answer is somewhere between the two. The production is admittedly a little flat, but I don’t think it is a dealbreaker. Certainly there are many worse- and better-sounding albums in the genre. As you pointed out, DZÖ-NGA is a pretty new band and hasn’t ever had much of a budget. So I recorded and mixed the album myself, except for the drums which I paid Aaron for. I think the project has made enough of an impression, though, to warrant a professional treatment the next time around.
How will you continue with DZÖ-NGA?
Chronologically speaking, there’s a split album coming this winter, as mentioned above. It doesn’t feel like a big step forward, though, since it’s in the same style as „Shimmered Bough“ (albeit benefitting greatly from Grushenka’s presence). Of significantly more gravity is the next full album – so far I’ve laid the framework, but am waiting for other pieces to fall into place before really setting sail. I can say with some confidence that it will be an original story involving witchcraft and reincarnation, and that it will draw on Medieval and European folk music. Who will consitute the crew beyond Grushenka has yet to be determined, but I would love to expand DZÖ-NGA into a full band for it. Maybe even with proper guitar leads.
Let’s end the interview with our traditional Metal1.info-Brainstorming:
Colonization: Inevitable
Ancestors: Teachers
President Trump: Embarrassing
Ethno music: Rich
Lyrics – music: Symbiotic
DZÖ-NGA in five years: Renamed
Thank you once more for your answers. Would you like to have the last words?
For a band that started out on the very bottom rung of the proverbial totem pole, this has all been an unbelievable journey so far. I cannot express enough how thankful I am to everyone who has taken a chance on our music, spent hard-earned money on our album(s), and gotten back to us with positive and/or constructive things to say. It is for you that DZÖ-NGA lives.
23. Oktober 2017 Stephan Rajchl