Interview mit Mikael Stanne von Dark Tranquillity

I hope you’re not too exhausted from doing promotion already … Do you like doing promotional stuff, or is it more hard work for you?
No, it’s still early … I have another full day of this. And I like it. I really do. It’s fun to talk about stuff that you’re very passionate about. But I’m at home for two days this week, and I’m doing interviews both days. And then I’m flying away somewhere again. So, that can be the hard part, but it’s all on me. (laughs)

Your new album is entitled „Endtime Signals”, which does not sound like a very optimistic title. Could you explain to us the idea behind the concept or in which way it relates to the times we’re living in?
Yeah, I guess it’s not very optimistic. In the past or normally I have kind of felt that things will be okay … it’s going to sort itself out, we’re humans after all, and we’re going to make it. We have a survival instinct and a willingness to solve problems and issues, so it’s going to sort itself out. But lately I haven’t really felt that that much. It’s been harder and harder to stay positive. I don’t really like that feeling at all, I hate the fact that I kind of lost that optimism, maybe. And especially the last two years as we started writing this album, you felt like things are going to get so much worse before they get any better, if they ever do. And that’s been just a frustrating, devastating thought to have, because that’s the last thing you want to think about. You want to go like, Yeah, it’s going to be fine! We have our ups and downs here in the world. Of course, we’re all striving to be better and to overcome our issues and to solve problems and to be nicer and better to each other and to ourselves. But I haven’t really seen that, and that has had a big effect on me, and it had a big effect on us as we kind of came back from the pandemic.

„I don’t need any positivity.
I just want to wallow in misery“

It’s like, OK, now we went through something traumatic, all of us, the entire planet went through the same thing, which one would think would be kind of like a unifying experience, like, hey, we went through something together. Now we come back, and we start getting things back in order and also make the world better, based on the experience we had. But of course, that didn’t happen in the way that I was hoping. Then we started touring, and you could tell it had really changed a lot of places, especially like North America, for instance, was kind of recovering from what happened during the pandemic. And it just, I don’t know, it really had a profound effect on us. So when we started writing the album, we tried to figure out how do we deal with what has been these last couple of years? How do we put this into words and music? So it became clear – maybe we just pour all that negativity and worry and fear into the album and see if that will make us feel better, first and foremost, because that was what I was looking for in music at the time as well. The music I was listening to, was like, I don’t need any positivity. I just want to wallow in misery. And I was listening to the most depressive, doomy, destructive music and just felt good, like someone else has the same kind of vibe. And that inspired us. Then we started thinking about the cover artwork and the title and everything. And the idea was: How about this dystopian future? So basically, if nothing improves, what would be the ultimate outcome of this? What’s the worst version of upcoming events, basically? And that became kind of the starting point for the cover artwork and the title as well. If everything goes as bad as it possibly can – what would that look like? That became the starting point for the visual art, but also me and Niklas talked a lot about, what do we call the album then? What would make sense for this, and what would inspire him to do his cover art? „Endtime Signals” just felt like this is the last kind of transmission. Maybe it’s whatever triggers the next phase for us.

I totally feel you. I had exactly the same feeling and I think many people around the entire world. But we can’t change a lot of what’s going wrong in this world as individuals, so putting it into art is a good approach. I think that worked very well in this case. An interesting point is that, again, you had some lineup changes. Anders Jivarp left the band, who was also a songwriter in the band, but already before him Niklas Sundin left the band, same goes for Anders Ivers and Christopher Ammott. In which ways did that influence the way “Endtime Signals” evolved?
It’s always frustrating when someone decides to leave, or we decide to part ways. In this case, part of it was during the pandemic, when all of a sudden you don’t have anything on the schedule, you start reevaluating your priorities, or what you want to do. It’s easy to just keep going, another tour, another album, another tour. But then all of a sudden everything stops, and you have some time to reflect. That’s what it was for Anders and Anders. They realized: Maybe I should do something else with my life, basically, and not just get stuck in this. And the important part for me is that they are super happy. They are content and happy with this. And it is the same for Chris. He just wanted to make his own music, and being part of that team that we wanted to be was not really his thing. And I was like, all right, then, whatever is best for you, that’s what’s going to has to happen. So, of course, it’s always frustrating and difficult, but at the same time, finding Joakim on drums and Christian on bass just felt so natural and easy because they are incredible musicians, some of the best people and just as dedicated to this as we are. But as you said, Anders Jivarp wrote a lot of material for the last couple of albums. So this was a matter of finding a new way to write. And I think Anders had a very specific way of writing and then Martin and Johan did as well, which led to a lot of compromise.

„As much as I have enjoyed those compromises over the years,
with this album, we didn’t need to do that“

You have an idea, but then it gets “translated” by Johan or Martin, and it’s always a back and forth until we can agree on something. But as much as I have enjoyed those compromises over the years, with this album, we didn’t need to do that. It was basically Johan and Martin who wrote the album, and we talked a lot about the direction and what it should be and how it should feel and where we should go and what kind of things we could do and what we felt was possible now with the new guys. So there was no compromise, but a very kind of clear vision of what the band should be in the coming years, basically. It wasn’t easy at first, but at the same time, it was very rewarding because we were on the same page the entire time. That really helped. So it’s just a matter of getting it right and not leave anything to chance. Just make sure that it has all the kind of emotional impact that we wanted it to have, that we had all the ingredients that you of course expect from a DARK TRANQUILLITY album. But also new and cool things that we could do just because of Christian and Johan and Joakim. So I really enjoyed this album and, as difficult as it was, as emotionally challenging as it was, it became something worthwhile because you came out at the other end incredibly satisfied with it. We had a renewed sense of accomplishment and vibe in the band and the excitement for the upcoming tours and the album coming out and everything is incredible. So it feels really amazing.

I think you can hear that, but I’m always really impressed if a band manages it to compensate line-up-changes like these, resulting in new music with all the trademarks of the band in it. How did you manage it to transfer your bands DNA to the new colleagues?
Johan has been a fan of the band since he started getting into death metal back in the 1990s, and we toured together a lot. But I think the learning thing was during the “Moment” recording, where there was a lot of material written already, and he had to be the guitarist to make it happen. He had to learn and rearrange songs. That was really a great learning experience for him, because we knew we had good material already, it was just a matter of making it adapted to Johan’s style and also have him adapt to our style, basically. So that made it easier for this album. We don’t have to specifically talk about like, „oh, it has to have this kind of riff.” It kind of comes naturally. Martin Brändström has been more or less producing the albums for many, many years since we started using his studio as the main recording place. And he’s grown more and more into that role as a producer. And with every album, he has been more involved in everything. Nowadays, there’s not a single tone and single word on the album that he’s not OK with. It gets his stamp of approval, otherwise there’s no way we release it. I think that has a lot to do with it as well. But also, it’s a matter of talking about the stuff and listening to songs back and forth, until we know that this just feels good and that this is what we want to do right now. But of course it’s always in the back of our mind – it has to sound “right”, but also it has to be “new”. (laughs)

„I don’t listen to individual songs,
I listen to albums“

The album is not out yet, but you already released three singles. I think it’s a new trend, that a lot of singles are released in beforehand. As a fan, do you like it to know already such a big part of an album before you can give it a listen in its entity?
As a fan, I don’t like it. If a band that I love announces a new album, and the first single comes out, I will listen to that and go like, all right, yeah, good. I will buy this album on day one, and then I’ll know. So I don’t need to listen to four or five singles, I really don’t. But at the same time, I understand that this is how things work with digital media nowadays and how people listen to playlists and that kind of stuff. So it’s just a matter of adapting to the new environment. I don’t really listen to music that way, I don’t listen to individual songs, I listen to albums. And I’m old school like that, and I love that experience. The bands that I like have albums and a continuity throughout an album, it has a beginning and an end, and there’s a storytelling thing or a mood throughout an album. So I prefer that. But it’s also a matter of finding a new crowd and reaching out to new people … that’s part of it. But the cool thing is that you can choose. If you just want to hear one song, fine, watch the video, awesome. If you want to listen to all the songs over and over again, just because you’re excited about the album, that’s great, too. It’s just a matter of making sure that nothing gets left out.

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Does that affect you as a musician, because you know that you have to have at least four or five songs which suit in the concept of being released as a single on the album? Is it difficult to get that in line with everything you just said about the continuity, storytelling or mood of an album?
No, it doesn’t affect how we think about it. That conversation starts after the songs are written and even mixed, actually. Maybe when we record the song, you go like, oh, this could actually be like a first single, because it just has everything that we want. The hard part is to figure out what songs will tell different stories about what the album sounds like. It doesn’t, of course, contain the whole story, but basically what we thought was, the first song is “The Last Imagination”. It’s heavy, and it has a very doomy, gloomy vibe that tells the story of the overall theme. Then “Unforgivable” is superfast, super intense, then we had “Not Nothing”, which showcases another aspect of the album. So that part is actually exciting. You think more in terms of marketing the album, and that can be fun to think about.

„It’s a matter of dealing with the realities
of the record industry“

And a part of is to set the visual narrative as well, like the videos and the way they look and the way they feel, so that that will further be showcased on stage when we go out on tour. I can still appreciate those things, even though, as I said, choosing singles it’s not that much fun, but it’s a matter of making the most out of it and making sure that it somehow sells a complete picture or at least a part of it. Or at least you get an impression or an idea of the scope of the album, maybe. It’s still frustrating, but it’s a matter of dealing with the realities of the record industry, right? You have to make the most out of it. You can just release the singles, or you can go, fuck it, let’s not. But we have decided to make the most out of it and make sure that the entire album has this sense of style that we have agreed upon and decided on. That part is exciting, creatively. If I could choose, it would be a different story, but …

The Album is about 50 minutes long, so that’s a lot of material. I guess it’s pretty hard to pick songs – especially if you think about the fact that a song that is not chosen as a single won’t ever get this attention?
It is. It is. I try not to think about that. But of course, I’m hoping that once the singles are out, it gets incorporated into the album, at least on the digital platforms, on Spotify and Tidal and stuff. So then it just becomes the album, and then that’s what you listen to.

Except for playlists…
Except for playlists, yes, of course. But I’ve been in so many meetings about this, and I go like, oh, please, just listen to the album. (laughs) But yeah, as I said, it’s not really up to us. It’s like, okay, if this works, then we’ll be fine. But yeah, choosing singles is always an absolute nightmare. It really is. But then again, it’s fun to record videos and try to figure out what everything should look like. We have another video coming out in a couple of weeks, and it’s still exciting. And of course, the engagement is there, which is fun. That’s the only part before the album comes out where you can actually see the reactions of people who listen to it. You get comments on YouTube or whatever, or social media. That part is fun, and means that, okay, there is excitement, people are ready for it, and listen to the song. So that part, of course, is good, too.

„Now you put out music so that you can tour“

Talking about this whole world of streaming: It’s a matter of fact that albums don’t sell as much as they sold when physical products were the only way to hear music – and some musicians are complaining that they became t-shirt-sellers those days, not musicians: You have to go on tour and sell merch to earn money. In how far does this affect you when it comes to the question of how often you “have to” release an album or go on tour?
I guess you don’t have to put out an album as often, maybe. But at the same time, we haven’t really thought about it that much. We realize, of course, that touring is more important than releasing albums the way you did in the 1980s or 1990s, when that was where the money came from. And then you went out to basically promote the album by touring – whereas now you release an album to promote a tour. It’s a sad state of affairs in a way, but you can whine about it a little bit, like, oh man, I wish it was the good old days, but that’s never coming back. So that doesn’t make any difference. But it is kind of strange. I don’t think it affects songwriting, it doesn’t affect how you put out an album, at least not in our minds, because we’re pretty old school when it comes to that. So we want it the old way … but then of course it means you have to plan years ahead, because you know how much you’re going to tour, and then it’s some time off, to start writing again, and then you start the whole thing, which can be kind of nerve-wracking sometimes. But at the same time, that’s how it works. So yeah, that of course has shifted. Now you put out music so that you can tour.

Can you roughly outline how much of what you earn with the band still comes from the music itself, and how much from touring and merchandise?
No, I have no idea, no figures. Touring is the biggest income, but I don’t know, in what respect, actually. I’m really bad at that kind of stuff.

„There’s no other way to make any money
than to raise prices.“

On the other hand, the prices for merchandise are going up like crazy: 30-35€ is the new normal, but some bands ask up to €50, €60 for a t-shirt. I wonder how long the prices can continue to rise before people stop buying shirts. And same goes for ticket prices …
I think, it’s a broader picture, actually. Flights, for instance, are more than 100% more expensive this year than it was in 2019. That means if you’re a tour party of 10 or 15 people, that’s the entire fee you get from a festival. Or it’s a huge part of it. That means that it’s really hard to get any overhead, and same goes for salaries and everything like that. That’s one thing. Tour buses are more than twice as expensive, which is a lot, because they are incredibly expensive as they are. Gas is incredibly expensive, and fabric is fucking expensive. So making a shirt is more than twice as expensive now than it was in 2019. Which means there’s no other way to make any money than to raise prices. But of course, there is a limit to that. And of course, it feels stupid to charge €50 for a show or something like that. But then also the sad part is: Then you maybe you cannot tour. And as you’ve seen, there are a lot of cancelled tours, because it’s just not financially viable. And that’s the downside to it. So it’s really difficult. The whole industry is going through changes that are going to be really hard to overcome. And it’s because of wars going on in the world that the prices are skyrocketing for so many things. And that affects every single part of manufacturing, even producing records like CDs and Vinyl. It’s incredibly expensive compared to what it was just three, four years ago. It sucks. It sucks that the albums are €60 nowadays. And I’m like: What? What happened? It was 30 before! It’s insane.

But I have no idea when things are going to change. When prices go down, everything goes down. Unfortunately, it’s not up to bands or management or record companies, because they just have to adapt to the reality of the world. You can not blame bands. It’s just reality. It’s either you can go to a show and can buy a T-shirt, or it’s not going to be there at all. Unfortunately, that’s the reality. Of course, not everywhere – there are a lot of bands who overcharge. But that’s always been the case, that’s nothing new. But even for bands who just want to make the bare minimum money for a tour, they have the lowest prices possible on tickets and merch … it’s still more expensive than anyone would like it to be.

„Either you charge that much or you don’t tour“

I just wonder whether we are then losing the new generation for the scene. When I was a teenager, I would not have been able to pay those amounts of money for records, shirts or tickets …
Definitely. That has always been a struggle, for me as well. Making money so that I can buy records and tickets, that’s a big part of my expenses throughout my life. And now knowing like, oh, damn, the festival tickets are incredibly expensive, all that stuff … it’s crazy. But yeah … unfortunately, I don’t have an answer, but maybe an explanation to why it is that way, because it’s not up to bands. Well, it is, but also it’s either you charge that much or you don’t tour. That’s the sad reality of it.

True that. Thanks for your answers, I have only a little brainstorming left!
The last album you listened to: The latest Causa Sui … Danish, progressive, crazy, improvised, psychedelic rock album. No, actually, no! The latest one I listened to on vinyl was the “The Last Of Us” soundtrack from the first video game. I bought that four vinyl box set that I ordered six months ago, and it just arrived when I got home from Finland. Oh, man, it’s beautiful and haunting and amazing! So that was the last album I listened to.
I guess the next one is already answered – because it was “Vinyl”, and if you buy a box like that, I guess you are right into it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I cannot help myself. It’s so much fun … I mean, it’s a fun hobby to collect stuff, but also I love supporting bands and cool versions. I don’t really buy major albums or stuff like that. I buy from smaller bands and usually directly from either band camp or at shows, because I know how much of a difference that makes. So that’s fun. I have so many records that I just bought because I’ve been to a lot of shows, but I still haven’t had time to listen to those because I’m never at home. (laughs) But it still feels good. You’re supporting bands, and that’s something that’s really important. The money I make from music, I put back into music.
Cool enough. I know so many musicians who don’t go to shows themselves anymore because they play so many and aren’t festivals and so on. So they just don’t want to go anymore …
It’s easy, but there’s also so much great stuff. And I’m fortunate to live in a city that has cool promoters and where really cool and interesting band come to. So I can’t help myself.
Next one is The Cure: The band? Oh, man! Something that I grew up, always having in the back of my mind when I was really into goth rock in the early mid 1990s, when I discovered The Mission and the Sisters Of Mercy, The Cure was a huge part of that. That vibe, that kind of melancholy, angst ridden music was very instrumental in my musical upbringing.
The elections in the USA: Absolute nightmare. And I hate the fact that I’m obsessed with it, constantly. I cannot help myself. I’m watching news. I’m reading news. I’m listening to podcasts. I’m devouring everything I can find about it. I shouldn’t, because it doesn’t make me feel good. And it’s probably detrimental to my mental health. But yeah, it’s there, and it’s fascinating – but it’s so frustrating because … fuck. It’s the opposite of what good kind of democracies should be, maybe. But let’s see. I’m going to be in America for the last couple of months of the election. And fortunately, I won’t be there when the actual election takes place. Because I wouldn’t want to. But yeah, it’s an absolute mess.

Yeah, absolutely. The last one is DARK TRANQUILLITY in 10 years: I’m hoping that we can get to do the same thing as we do. When we started I thought that five years would be too much. Then 10 years was not a possibility. Now it’s been 30 years. So, hey, why should we stop? If it still feels good, and we can do it, and we can get away with it, we will continue.

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Publiziert am 15. August 2024 von Moritz Grütz