Interview mit Vorph von Samael

You wanted to celebrate the “Passage” anniversary originally in 2021, but then the pandemic intervened it. So what did this disruption of your plans mean for SAMAEL back then?
Well, one of the things that we thought as we couldn’t do the tour, was maybe we will do it live in studio or something like that. Or to re-record the album. We thought about that too. But when we knew we could do it in 2022, we decided straight on that we will record every show and then pick the best songs from each show. That was the idea. But this was too complicated because we had 18 shows and too much to choose from. So we decided we’d just choose one of the best shows we had. We had a few, maybe five that were kind of the best. After all, we just decided to take the last one. The energy was great: We gave what we had left and we were very warmed up after all those shows. So that was probably the best option. And Poland always had been good for us. It was a good crowd as well. This show was pretty much perfect, I think 98% of what you hear is what was played there, then we had feedback on the microphone, so we pick up from one another concert, I mean that’s okay, you can do that, but basically this is pretty much what was there. Actually the show is on the internet, so people can compare. Besides the mix, you could see that this is really what happened that night.

Talking about that tour: What memories took you home from this run?
That was pretty smooth, actually. We’ve been doing this for some time. But was the first tour we did with Ales [Campanelli], our bass player. He joined the band just before the pandemic. So we were really hungry to do some shows together. And then … I mean, everybody had to go through this, so it’s not like I’m complaining. But we were ready to go on the road and had to wait a little bit. So it was a relief to do this thing. And it was good to present the new lineup with an old album. It was not really the plan, but the way it turned out, was great.

So if it was not the plan, was it originally the plan to present the new lineup with new music?
No, but we might have done some shows not focused on the “Passage” album before that. I mean, we did one thing in Switzerland: The first show we did together was actually a stream show. It was at a club in the German part of Switzerland. They just rented a few cameras. And it was like a festival, I think we were four bands playing … in front of nobody. There were the other bands in the place, the sound engineer, light engineer and cameraman. That was kind of weird … it was a bit like having a soundcheck or pre-production: You have the light show, you have everything, but you just don’t have the crowd. (laughs)

Strange times … luckily this is over. How important was it to you to not let this anniversary of “Passage” pass uncelebrated? So what did it mean to you to do this anniversary shows?
We already did that with “Ceremony Of Opposites” a few years ago, and as much as I was not a big fan of this when other bands were doing it, I have to admit I really enjoyed doing it. (laughs) When I was looking at other bands doing that, I always thought, well, maybe they don’t have any new idea, and it’s just the nostalgic thing. But I greatly enjoyed doing it. I mean, that has been said before by many other people, but every album has really encapsulated a certain time. When you listen to it, of course it brings you back. But when you play it, it’s even more. You remember, there are some moves with your fingers, and you’re like, oh yeah, that was the way I do it. Because you record it, and then you play it live many times, and then there’s a little trick here and there that will be slightly different from the album, and you like it, so you keep it. What we learned back was the original formula, and then the little tricks, they come back to you with a lot of things. So I really like the way that we reconnect with our past, and that we bring the past in the present. It was not like going back there, it was like really taking this in the present. And I thought it was good that we did that with “Passage” too, because I think those two were probably the two albums that laid the foundation for whatever we’ve done after that. They’re both very important.

Now we’re already talking about this time back then, and the album in its original way, and as you already mentioned, playing those songs brought up memories. Can you share some of these with us? It was stilistically a huge step in a new direction. What were your ideas when you created this album?
One of the main things that come to my mind first was the switch with the drum machine. Nowadays we’re very comfortable with the fact that this is square, and there is no messing around or anything. But back then it was a little bit like all of a sudden … the idea was good, but when we played live, it was a bit like being in a dictatorship. There is no way around it. Usually, if you mess up a little bit, the drummer will catch up with it. It’s always smooth, there is always a way to make it happen. But that was no longer possible. There was no way for me to turn to my brother and say, well, I guess you did something wrong! (laughs) Even though it was more often me … but then I had to learn to go with the plan. It’s merciless, it’s really merciless. That was my feeling when we started up doing this. I mean, it’s just like playing with a click after all. It’s a bit more square, because every roll, everything is programmed, so there is no time for improvisation nowhere. But I got used to it, and I can still play around with my vocals a little bit. That gives me freedom, because I know my guitar is really stuck in the song, but I still have a little bit of freedom with the vocals, I don’t need to sing it a hundred percent like it was on the record.

I think that’s a really interesting point, because over the last years using click and backing tracks got so common in the metal scene … I think there are barely no bands not using click tracks and additional backing track arrangements. Do you think it’s a good development that this came into metal, because it makes bands sound more professional, or is it also maybe a bit a step away from playing really “live”?
It will probably sound strange for me to say that, because we play with a drum machine, so we should not have a word about that, but I’m not really a big fan … If you got the classical formula, a drum, bass, guitar, whatever happened, happened. I’ve never had a problem with band doing mistakes live. Actually, I love it when it’s a bit messy. I like that better than having a perfect sound. I remember seeing Kiss live, and they’re all about the show, but they don’t have any backing track, or they didn’t at the time I saw them. I thought that was great, it was a show, but it was also a Rock ‘n’ Roll concert, it was also something very alive. That’s why you go out. I mean, if not, stay home and listen to it the perfect way. So yeah, we do it with the drums, some people do it with keyboards … if you got the keyboard on the track, you had to play with a click, there’s no way around that. But I think if you got a keyboard, try to find a keyboard player eventually. (laughs) That’s what people would say with us for the drums, but that’s kind of a different story.

So whats the story behind that, why did you decide to go with programmed drums – on album as well as on stage?
Everybody, especially the record company, said: It doesn’t matter what you do in the studio, because there were already bands with programmed drums, even though they were pretending it was a player … but for the live performance we had to fight our idea that we wanted to do it that way. And I like it, because we were listening to a lot of industrial stuff, a bit of electronic stuff, and it was not such a big deal for us. But I understand it … I come from the metal scene as well and I might not be as indulgent with others than I am with us … (laughs)

But you’re still happy with how you did it back then, and if you would have the chance now, you would not do it in a different way, with real drummer, or change anything else in the album?
The live album is pretty much [identical] … some of the drums sounds are different. Even though it is programmed, you can still change it: Whenever there is a new plugin, you can use a new sound, and change this and that. Basically it’s the same programming as on the record, except some little details. We maybe accelerate a tiny bit here and there, or decelerate if you want to have it heavier … that’s the thing you learn. Because with a real drummer it will happen naturally, but for us, we had to do it many times, and then feel like: No, this had to be different, we would have a better impact if we played a tiny bit slower than it is. So that’s one of the major changes, and the tuning. As I mentioned, we were doing this “Ceremony Of Opposites” thing a few years before, and the tuning was C-sharp, and since we tuned back to C-sharp, we actually stay in C-sharp, so we play every song that way, even though all the other albums are in D. Its just half a tone down, but I think it gives a bit more heaviness – at least to my ears. I don’t know if people will notice that, it’s not much of a difference, but maybe a little bit.

Musicwise, “Passage” was a turning point for SAMAEL. Did you worry, if your fans would follow you on this path?
You know how it is: If you start to think … I mean, you don’t even know what “the fan” means. They’re all different! It’s not just like one single mind, which is spread across all the people that listen to your music. If you try to please what you think is the opinion of others, it’s pretty sure you gonna mess up. And then, if you don’t reach the goal you were looking for, you will not even be happy. So it’s obvious that have to think for yourself and what is good for you. If it doesn’t work then, at least you’re comfortable with it, so it’s not a problem. I’m glad about the choice we made back then, and there’s still things to develop out of that, we haven’t explored everything.

That’s definitely true. When it comes to new music … is there anything in the making, can we expect new music soon?
Yeah! (laughs) We are working on it already for quite a while to tell you the truth, I mean we were already pretty advanced in the composition before Covid, and then we had a lot of time to come back to every song that we had, so yeah: We started recording. Most of it is pretty much done, we’re still doing editing, we might still record some stuff, but the idea is to finish everything before summer. We still have to figure out with whom we’re gonna mix it, and when and where, but we’ll at least have one song being released this year, and probably the full album next year … that’s the plan.

What can we expect music-wise, will it be completely different or in the same direction like the last one … any hints on that?
As much as I think the base of our music was made around “Ceremony Of Opposites” and “Passage”, I kind of had the feeling like with “Hegemony” we kind of come with the 2.0 version of the band. (laughs) So we laid a different foundation. It is not totally different, but we built upon that, and we wanted to top this with a big shift. So that’s probably why it takes that long, because once you’re too close to it you feel like there’s still more to be done, we still have to work more … because you don’t feel like you’re really topping what you’ve done before. But at the moment we’re pretty confident with what we got, so let’s see.

On the other hand you are focusing back on your very early days: I saw that you will play a special old school show in London later this year. Are there any other shows like that planned, or is it a unique event?
It’s not officially announced yet, but as we celebrate the 30th anniversary of “Ceremony Of Opposites” this year … so we thought, OK, won’t do this again, because we’ve already done it, but maybe we do one show … so probably that’s gonna be the show. We will have a show around that album and some other songs, but “Ceremony” will be the core of that performance.

So not a completely old school black metal-ish show?
Well, 30 years ago, it’s kind of old school … (laughs)

Okay, point taken, yeah. Have you considered playing this show with a full drum kit on stage as well, or will it be like you did the last ones?
No, it will be with a drum machine. We actually did a project … a few years ago, we played the two first albums with drums. It was like the original bass, guitar, vocals, drums. We did around 10 shows for that. It was not planned to be that much, but we did two in Switzerland, and then it kind of took off from there, we got a bit of an offer here and there, we did Wacken, we did another festival in Germany, we did a show in Tokyo … but it was really just a few things, and then Xy lost interest in it, so I guess we are done with that project. But it was fun to do it for a while. I enjoied it too, it’s different, it’s more relaxed really … it’s easier somehow.

Let’s come back to the upcoming “Passage” live album: It’s only an audio recording, no video included. Was that a decision based on the budget, or didn’t you want a video?
We thought about that, but as I said, we recorded every show, so we didn’t know which one we will choose. We had a video for “Jupiterian Vibe”, but the images were not from the show that the song comes from. I think it was from Lyon and Essen, one in France, one in Germany. But no, it won’t be a DVD thing – but we have a big 56 pages booklet with live pictures.

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I think it’s quite interesting that live albums are such a thing still in the metal scene. Do you share this joy of live CDs, and how would you explain that success of live recordings in metal?
This is a kind of music that makes more sense when it’s played live – this is the main purpose! I was listening to heavy metal, but the first time I saw a concert, that was the moment when everything happened, this is like going to Mecca, it’s the real thing. So probably this is one of the reasons. The energy … “energy” is the main word I will use to define it. And to answer your question if I’m a big fan of live recording … it depends. I mean Motörheads “No Sleep Till Hammersmith” is probably one of the best, because it is a best-of somehow, the best Motörhead tracks of that time, and they even sound better than on the studio recording. There is this energy, you feel that there is a sense of danger, a sense of … it could happen, something wrong could happen, but fortunately it doesn’t. So I like that, I like this tension.

You’re going to Japan in March, what do you expect from those shows?
I try never to have any expectation, it’s always like when you arrive you don’t even know which kind of place you’re going to play, so once you enter the place start to feel, okay that might turn it that way, or you start maybe to project things, but before that I never do that. We have never really been there, we played there just once, a few years ago, one single show in Tokyo. So for us it’s really like a new thing, but we were looking to play there for a long time. It’s complicated … we were never really what they were looking for, we don’t have a guitar lead, and they had some craziness about lead guitar players, so that was not the thing, and then we were too industrial … but then, all of a sudden, they’re up to it, but we were too much this or that. It was always something wrong, so finally we got the chance to, so I’m really glad we go back there.

All the best for that! Will there be shows in Germany 2024 as well?
I don’t think we have anything at this moment, no. That’s strange, because we’re so near, but I don’t think we have a festival this summer in Germany, not yet … it can still happen. Would be nice, it’s always nice.

Thanks for your time and your answers – I have a short brainstorming to finish the interview!
Black Metal: Venom
Rammstein: Industrial, Leibach
Switzerland: bank (laughs)
Hellhammer: Celtic Frost
Life on tour: danger
SAMAEL in 10 years: Let’s see … I mean we’re still in good shape, we’re still all right, nobody’s sick at the moment, so yeah, we might still be able to do this for some more years. I mean, 10 years doesn’t seem that far actually, it goes so fast. When you’re younger you think 10 years is till the end of the world, and then you’re thinking, oh yeah, that album we just released just turned 20. It happened with “Rain Of Light” … I thought, well this is like a recent album, and it turned 20 this year, and I was like, wow, I haven’t seen this coming.

Once again, thank you very much for taking time, and have a nice evening.
Yeah, thank you, it was a pleasure!

Publiziert am 13. Februar 2024 von Moritz Grütz

Fotos von: Afra Gethöffer-Grütz